Flying High With Electric Power!

The Ampeer ON-LINE!
May 2001
The Club Newsletter of the Electric Flyers Only, Inc
AMA Charter 2354
Walled Lake, MI, USA

Editor: Ken Myers

Fly the Future - Fly Electric!

What's On This Site:
Site Table of Contents

President:Vice-President:Secretary/Treasurer:
Ken MyersRichard Utkan 
1911 Bradshaw Ct.240 Cabinet 
Walled Lake, MI 48390Milford, MI 48381 
(248) 669-8124(248) 685-1705 
Board of Directors:Board of Directors:Ampeer Editor
Jim McNeelyJeff HauserKen Myers
4733 Crows Nest Ct.18200 Rosetta1911 Bradshaw Ct.
Brighton, MI 48116Eastpointe, MI 48021Walled Lake, MI 48390
(810) 220-2297(810) 772-2499(248) 669-8124
Mailed Ampeer subscriptions are $10 a year US & Canada and $17 a year world wide. FREE on-line!
The Next Meeting: Date: Sunday, May 6 Place: Camp Dearborn, Milford, MI Time: 10:00 a.m.

What's In This Issue?
Hot Doggin' Fun Fly Upcoming Efliowa 2001 M.I.S.S. Information More Events Toledo 2001
April EFO Meeting Upcoming St. Louis E-fly Rib Weights Skimmer Plane Rating Barter Page Back Up
X-250 & Picture B-25 For Sale Astro Flight 112 and More What’s Missing in Reviews and Reports Once Again a Sad Report
B-17 U-2 Revisited Upcoming May EFO Meeting Upcoming Events Send Ken email

"Hot Doggin' Fun Fly"
Saturday, June 9th, 11 a.m. -2 p.m.
Free flying
Free hotdogs & soda

Oakland Yard , 5328 Highland Rd., Waterford, MI 48327 (248.673.0100)

     Eat a hot dog, then watch a hot dog maneuver his R/C airplane. Can it get any better? Come be a part of the pylon racing and the full contact "hot" dog fights. We will be flying in our 72,000 square foot dome as well as outside on our soccer field. There will be open flying along with some special events. Get into the action as a spectator or a daring pilot.

Oakland Yard allows the following types of models:
1) Free flight: C02, electric, rubber, hand launch
2) Radio Control (No combustion engines) - All R/C pilots must be members of the AMA.
For more information contact aviation director David Dobrin at: (248.673.0100)

Model Aviation Summer ‘01

     Oakland Yard has again made time available in our 72,000 square foot dome for individuals interested in model aviation. Models range from delicate rubber powered airplanes to full contact radio controlled Zagis. Zagi combat has become the ultimate spectator sport. Get into the action as a spectator or a daring pilot.

Oakland Yard allows the following types of models:


1) Free flight: C02, electric, rubber, hand launch
2) Radio Control (No combustion engines) - All R/C pilots must be members of the AMA. Membership can be obtained by calling (1-800-IFLYAMA).

     The cost is cheap for such an opportunity!
Returning members $50.00
New members $60.00
Individual visit $10.00
Spectators $1.00
(Members get free soda and coffee each night!!)
     Weather permitting we will also be flying outdoors on our fully lit soccer field!!!

Dates and Times


Sunday, May 13th, 7:00 p.m. -10:00 p.m.
Sunday, May 27th, 7:00 p.m. -10:00 p.m.
Saturday, June 9th, 11:00 a.m. -2:00 p.m. "Hot Doggin’Fun Fly" Free!
Sunday, July 2 2nd, 7:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m.
Sunday, August 12th, 7:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m.
Sunday, September 9th, 7:00 p.m. -10:00 p.m.
Sunday, October 7th, 7:00 p.m. - 10:00 p.m.
Sunday, October 21st, 7:00 p.m.- 10:00 p.m.

     Winter flying club will again continue on Saturday evenings. See you in November!
     Remember Oakland Yard is available for special events. Need a place for club meetings? Contact Dave for availability.

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Upcoming Efliowa 2001

Saturday, September 8 and
Sunday, September 9, 2001
Place: Seven Cities Sod Farm -
Junction of I-80 and Iowa 130.
For details: www.rc-dymond.com/efliowa/

     Last year we had 45 registered pilots and 150 aircraft. This year promises to be even bigger and better. Several vendors have verbally committed to attend.

Hope to see you there!
For further information:
Jon McVay (AMA 6004)
319-895-6527 email: Togflier@AOL.com

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M.I.S.S. Information

     Over the past few years there has been a close tie between the EFO and M.I.S.S. (Michigan International Soaring Society). With this in mind, I am recommending that EFO members, who are not already M.I.S.S. members, consider joining this "soaring" club. They have a large interest in electric planes, not just soarers. Our EFO club meeting in May, will be a joint venture between the EFO and M.I.S.S. See this details in this issue for time and place.
     The following is information about the M.I.S.S. club that you need to know. It is from their promotional newsletter of May 2000.

Meetings and Activities:
     The club meets monthly on the first Monday of the month. Meetings begin at 7:30 P.M. Most members arrive early to discuss model construction and tell stories about their most recent flying sessions. Meetings are held at Mettatel Airport in Plymouth, Michigan. The building used is the "Hut" which is operated by the local EAA chapter.

Where Does the Club Fly:
     The M.I.S.S. club flying site is a field inside of Camp Dearborn which is located in Milford, MI. There is an admission fee for one day visitors to the park. Most members have purchased and annual "Pass" which permits flying any day of the year when weather allows.

How and When Do I become a Member of M.I.S.S.
     Prospective members are required to attend a combination of 4 meetings or other sponsored activities before being admitted. As a prospective member an individual can fly at flying events and contests if the person is a member of AMA or has applied for AMA membership. The annual dues are $20 for adults. A family membership is available at $25.

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More Events:

     The River Valley Flyers remote control aviation club would like to invite you and Keith Shaw participate in our June 9 & 10th electric fun fly and swap meet. This electric meet is the largest electric meet in Wisconsin. This will be our fourth year of putting on this electric event. Each year this event keeps growing more informative, more vendors, bigger, and better. Last year we had over 50 registered electric pilots and four vendors and this year we expect a 25 percent improvement over this. We are also looking for vendors and high profile electric pilots to be feature pilots at our electric meet.
     We draw electric fliers and interested spectators from many of the surrounding states. We have plenty of room for growth, the areas is wide open and has few trees. We allow camping at the field and you will be able to set up camp Friday June 7th after 5 PM so you'll be able to set up early and keep things set up until the end on Sunday or you may stay at the local hotels in the area. We have two beautifully manicured runways 250 feet by 75 feet one north-south the other is east-west. We would like to invite you, to participate, make new friends, share your knowledge and have fun along with the other pilots attending this meet in making RVF 2001 The big "E" Spring Fling!

Here are a few words said about RVF 2000.

     Rich Ida and Chuck Benner put on another great event for the third straight year. Great field with only enough rules as necessary and a lot of relaxed flying. Windy Saturday but there were still planes flying most of the day. Sunday was perfect flying weather with lots of flying. If you wasn't there you missed a great time.
     Thanks again Rich and Chuck and the other members of the River Valley Club
Don Granlund Sr.

* * * *

     The RVF was a blast for my first electric only event. It was especially nice to see so many different airplanes actually fly! I now have several "must-haves" for my own kit back log, and a brand-new Cavazos Twister on the bench. As luck would have it, Greg Kamysz pulled in next to us and setup shop, and I had the opportunity to pick his brain for 2 days. If you haven't seen him fly the Voster Modellbau Me-163, it's a real treat! (Imagine a VERY small red bullet) The Dymond booth was almost always busy, and Helmut put on quite a show with a number of his airplanes.
Steve Wilson, Green Bay, WI

* * * *

     Another BIG thanks to Rick and Chuck this year. It (River Valley E-fly) just gets bigger and better every year. (kinda like Chuck) Well worth the 280 mile drive each way. I had to leave early Sunday to have time to stop at another fly-in on my way home so I only flew three planes Sunday.
     I don't think the venders minded the wind too much on Saturday.
John Swetland, Canosia, MN USA

River Valley Flyers, Electric Meet IV & Swap Meet

     The River Valley Electric Meet IV will be held June 9 & 10, 2001. The club field is located 14 MI South of Stevens Point WI. on I-39, then exit 143 West 8 MI. on Cty W. located North between 130th St. and Co. F. $10.00 one day, $15.00 two days, includes pilots raffle. Food on site. Camping on site, Porta Potties on site, no water or electricity available. Campers and vendors may arrive on Friday June 8th after 5 PM for setting up campsites. 50 pilots last year. Many vendors will be present. If you are a vendor of products relating to electric R/C airplanes and wish to participate at no fees for vending please contact us. Make hotel reservations early because of state soccer ball championships being held in Wisconsin Rapids. Stevens Point usually gets booked up also! Additional info will be posted to this web site soon. Club web site www.rvf-rc.org or from Rich Ida inspector@tznet.com or Charles Benner cjbenner@tznet.com

Charles Benner
River Valley Flyers WI. Rapids WI.
     You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck !

Boeing Phantom flyers R/C

     The Boeing Phantom flyers R/C club have set a date of Saturday, June 23, 2001 for an electric fun fly event. Tom Ramsey will be the CD. The event will be held at the club field a few miles north of St. Charles, MO off of Hi-way 94.
     We have both a paved runway and a grass landing area with taxi ways and a pavilion. AMA cards will be required. Also a frequency control board will be in use.
     Tom's in charge and I'm co-CD. I wanted to add the club URL for our home page: members.nbci.com/phantomrc/index.htm
     In the table in the middle of the home page you'll find pointers to an interactive map, under "Phantom Flyers Field Site." Click on the numbered balls on the map and you'll be treated to pictures of landmarks and intersections.

Thanks,
Brad Young 636-272-8730
Tom Ramsey 314-731-2144

Voltaires Electric Fun Fly

     The Voltaires of Central NY will again present their all electric Fun Fly, July 21 & 22, 2001. This has been an annual event for many years and has become a summer institution in the Northeast. The emphasis is on Fun Flying with a few competitive events thrown in for good measure. There will be door prizes, event prizes and lunch provided for the pilots both days. The Fun Fly is held at Grenadier's field about 15 miles North of Syracuse. The site has a Club House, paved runway, electricity and room for camping. There is no running water however there are Men's and Lady's privies on site. Being close to Syracuse there are a wealth of accommodations available. Maps and detailed directions will be provided upon request.
Contacts:
Garret Wikoff 9494 Pendergast Rd, Phoenix, NY 13135 315-695-4271 or wikoff@attglobal.net.
Gordon Wheler 5 Old Farms Ln, Cazenovia, NY 13035 315-655-9068

Canadian Electric R/C Scale Championships

     Canadian Electric R/C Scale Championships July 27-29 at Fairfield R/C Club in Chilliwack, British Columbia. For more information see www.canadianelectricflight.com or Contact Doug Burt <flyinace@direct.ca>

Columbus, OH E-meet

     August 11 at the WMAA field just north of Columbus, Ohio. It will be a fun fly type event, similar to the one that Azarr has put on in the past.
     Here is our web site: wmaa-wags.org/Default.htm. It has some map and field info. Kevin Petrilla petrilla.3@osu.edu

ORIGINAL Fort Wayne Electri-Fly

     The ORIGINAL Fort Wayne Electri-Fly 2001 will be held on August 11th. It will run from 8:00 a.m. until 4:00 p.m. Join us for our 4th year in a row at one of the area's best flying fields. Wide open areas, with wonderfully manicured grounds. General flying will be the order of the day, with a few fun events for those interested. Food and drink available, with a light lunch menu available. Camping available on site, with electric hookup. Contact Pat Mattes at: pat-ingrid-mattes@juno.com for more info.

First Electric Soaring World Challenge

     October 26-28, Phoenix, AZ, Schnepf Farms, Queen Creek, Arizona (45 min. southeast of Phoenix Int’l Airport)
3 Event Classes: A pilot may only enter two of the three events.
"400" Sailplane - Only 400 sized ferrite motors (Mabuchi RS 380 type) will be permitted, the battery pack is limited to 8 cells. The motor run is limited to 60 seconds.
7 cell Sailplane - Any motor is permitted. The battery pack is limited to 7 cells. The motor run is limited to 40 seconds.
Unlimited Sailplane - Any motors permitted. The battery pack is limited to 30 cells. The motor run is limited to 20 seconds

     For more information, entry forms, rules, contact information and schedules visit: www.f5jelectric.com/ or Dave Wenzlick dave@techlite.net

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Toledo 2001

     Unbelievable! If you wanted to get near any booth with goods that supported electric flight, you had to wait, wait, wait. While there were few really new goods, especially if you have Internet access or current magazines, it is always interesting to talk with the vendors. I’m sure there will be lots of coverage in the general modeling press.
     The three most "gotta get" things for me are the Pica PT-19, SR Batteries "Cutie", and the Maxx Speed 400 cobalt.
     Here are a few photos from the display area.

Flapjack photo 1 Flapjack photo 2

     Keith Shaw’s first indoor model. It is a fun-scale design reminiscent of the Vought V-173 "Skimmer." Span: 16", (26" across the prop tips!), Area: 200 sq.in., Weight: 8.5 oz., Power: 2x Astro Flight Firefly motors, 8x 250mAh NiMH cells, torque rod control system, hand-made left- and right handed props.

SR Batteries Cutie

     Here is a photo of the Cutie from the SR Batteries Booth, with a couple of X-250s in the background. Yes, the Cutie is related to the original Q-tee. Watch the May and June issues of the modeling magazines for the release date. Also, I’ll have a review of the kit and plane in the Ampeer. I’m very much looking forward to this one!

Robert's DC-8

     Robert Pannell of Florence, KY designed and built this EDF DC-8-73. It features: 4x WeMoTec 480 Minifans, 4x Graupner Speed 480BB race motors, 2x 10 cell Sanyo 2400mAH packs, 2x Astro Flight 204D ESCs, Construction is balsa covered foam, flight time: 4.5 - 6 minutes, weight: 11.75 lbs., wing span: 76.5 in., length: 91.5 in.

Allen's Sikorsky

     Allen Mrock of Oxford, MI showed his version of the Sikorsky 39c. It is powered by a geared Astro Flight 05.

Les's Wing Ding II

     This is Les Garber’s Wing Ding II. Les is well-known for this type of plane. He is from Minnesota and always makes the long drive down to the Mid-Am. This version weighs 7.5 oz. and has 335 sq.in. He noted that it is very easy to land and flies very well inverted.

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April EFO Meeting

Richard and his Puddle Master

     At the April EFO meeting, Richard Utkan showed off his completed Puddle Master, completed from the ACE kit that had been started by Ken Myers. Richard is using a Graupner Speed 600 8.4v direct drive with a Grish 8x6 three-bladed prop. We tested the amp draw and found it to be quite reasonable with a 7-cell pack. PS Always make sure everything is held in place firmly before doing motor testing! ;-)
     Don Skiff brought over his latest iteration of the EFO spreadsheet. Wow! What a job he’s done. Ken had started the spreadsheet, and Don has added a lot of functionality to it. It was demonstrated for all present, and all members present received the latest version. Ken will be continuing the article in the Ampeer soon. (honest!)
     Ken showed how he uses Cockpit Master to "test" proposed planes and power systems. Of course everyone had to take a hand at a bit of simulator flying. This program/simulator is an extremely useful modeling tool and is highly recommended. It can be purchased at the local hobby shop or at www.critterbits.com, which is Multiplex USA.

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Upcoming St. Louis E-fly
From: Tom Ramsey
Thomas.Ramsey@MW.Boeing.com

     Tom Ramsey sent along word that he’ll be CD-ing a meet in St. Louis on June 23, 2001. The starting time will be 9:30 AM. It will be at the Boeing of St. Louis Phantom Flyers' field off North Hi-way 94 in St. Charles, MO (a northwwest suburb of St. Louis) in the middle of the Missouri river flood plain. It will be a completely fun-flying event. No competitions at all. AMA cards will be required. There will be no landing fees. The CD will be myself and my co-CD will be Brad Young. We have a 400 ft. paved runway and a grass strip along side of the paved strip. If anyone wants further details they may call me at (314) 731-2144. Updates will be posted on E-zone magazine. Just click on: DISCUSSIONS----EVENTS----ELECTRIC FUNFLY IN ST. LOUIS.
     He also asked if camping is available at the Mid-Am on July 7 & 8. Yes, primitive. Only porta-poties are available.
     Here are a couple of photos of his Taube at the Ste.Genevieve-MO e-fly last Oct.

Taube 1 photo Taube 2 photo

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Rib Weights
From: Ken Marks KenA.Marks@mail.state.ky.us

     I am in the process of building a SIG LT-25 powered by an Astro Flight 25G and would like to pass on some information. I was weighing the ribs and was surprised at the variance in weights of the ribs. The ribs varied in weight from 2.3 to 5.2 grams. I positioned the heavier ribs inboard and the lighter outboard. Builders should pay attention to insure that wing panels not only weigh the same but have the same moments of inertia. I have been please with the overall quality of the SIG kit.

     Thanks for the reminder Ken. I’ve done this for years, but lots of new folks will find it very helpful. KM

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Skimmer Plane Rating
From: Nikolaus M Combs

Nick and his Skimmer

Dear Mr. Ken Myers,

     My Name is Nikolaus Combs. I started flying electric airplanes when I was about 8 years old. I am currently 14 years old and still going. I built a 'Skimmer' but modified it. I cut about 1.25" x 23" rectangle out of the back of each wing and filled the spaces with two ailerons (powered with 1 FMA micro servo each, mounted in the wing). Flies very well in high wind.
On your scale, I give it 4 1/2 stars.

Aircraft Name: Skimmer
Aircraft Manufacturer: Hobby Lobby, through Hobby Lobby
Type: Powered Glider
Power System: Magnetic Mayhem reversed from just about anywhere
Battery: 7-cell Sanyo 1250SCR with Sermos connectors From B&T and Tower Hobbies (just for connectors)
Speed Controller: New Creations 18 cell From New Creations
Gearing: Master Airscrew 3:1 Tower Hobbies
Prop: Master Airscrew Folding 12 x 8 Lots of places

R/C components

Receiver: Airtronics
Servos: 4 Hitec Micro servos (HS81) Can get them lots of places

     I'd like to save my 5 stars for my next plane, the Shrike (an electric conversion) that went very well.
Sincerely,
Nikolaus Combs, Boise Idaho

     Thanks for that excellent rating report. If anyone would like to contact Nikolaus, please email me, and I’ll forward it to him. KM

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Barter Page Back Up
From: Dick Corby sales@altacom-of-lasvegas.com

Hi Ken:

     Just a line to let you know that I have the Barter page back up and working on my site. I was unaware that it wasn't working right, and nobody let me know. It's back now, and I hope that people will take advantage of it.
     The page is www.altacom-of-lasvegas.com/p171.htm and click on the barter page.
     We all have stuff that we don't need, and could get rid of if there were someplace to sell or trade it. Hopefully this can become a useful place for the R/C hobbyist to do this.
Thanks,
Dick Corby

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X250 and Picture
From: Sean Toomey email: Sean.Toomey@Quantum.com

Ken,

     After reading your article and many positive comments on the SR Batteries X-250, I went out and purchased one. I made only a few modifications to the plane, installing nylon wing hold-down bolts & 2 HS55 aileron servos versus one HS60.
     My X250 comes out at 23.6 oz. ready to fly with the manufacturer's recommended battery, motor and prop. However, it does not leap off pavement in 3 feet, rather it rolls 10-15 feet before becoming airborne. The batteries are fully charged and the speed control is at full throttle. Do you have any thoughts on how to improve my mediocre performance without investing a bunch more?

     (My reply was that I thought that the speed control was not coming full on and to check by running the motor with and without the speed control. If there is a huge difference, the transmitter needs to be “tweaked” to match the speed controller. If it is a Hitec, the trim does interact with the speed controller. KM)

     Thanks and keep up the great work on The Future is Electric.

     Here is a picture of my X250.

Sean's X-250

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B-25
From: Dan Parsons danpars@worldnet.att.net

Gary's B-25

     Attached a couple of inflight pictures I took of the latest scale model flying in Albuquerque, a B-25 from JR Models. It's an all-fiberglass ARF from the Czech Republic. It was finished and test flown (picture taken on test flight) by our local electric Guru, Gary Kyle. Gary said this ARF is not new, it's been out there for several years.
     I saw it before Gary started working on it and was impressed with the quality of the glass work and really impressed how light it all was. Here are the specs.
Span: 53 in.
Area: 510 sq. in.
Weight: 46 0z.
Motors: Dymond 480's (400L's), wired in parallel
Gear boxes: Graupner 2:33
Batteries: 8-1250 Sanyo nicads
Props: 9-6 APC E's
     Hand-launch was successful but a catapult would be my choice. After trimming it out, Gary made many photo passes and then continued flying for a total flight time of 14 minutes 40 seconds! The flight time amazed all of us watching, including the pilot. It appeared to handle well, and Gary confirmed this. vI've been busy assembling and flying several ARFs. A 50 inch P-51 I converted from a all-balsa slope soarer; a 2 meter Bonito sailplane; an all-foam 51 inch Cessna 180 and an all-foam Terry. Never thought I'd see the day I'd be flying all-foam ARFs, but here I am having a great time with them. The Cessna 180 I got mainly for ROG'ing and shooting touch-and-go's off our grass field. By the way, the construction and assembling design of both of these all-foam ARFs is excellent.

Gary's B-25

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For Sale Astro Flight 112 and More

From: R. Mende email: bbmende@earthlink.net

     Due to ill health I have a short list of items for sale, starting with an Astro Flight 112 charger.
     Contact: bbmende@earthlink.net for list and prices.

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What’s Missing in Reviews and Reports
From: Bob Aberle

     My reason for writing is your lead article in the current April Ampeer. This is the one on the Hobbico Speed Pilot ARF. Tom Hunt and I have been trying for a long time to get some standards together for reporting on electric powered aircraft. If people like yourself and Keith try so hard to publish articles on the sizing of motors to particular aircraft, then you need all the parameters that make that job possible.
     I often ask a modeler at my flying field about motor current and they usually say, "what's that?" I then ask if they own an Astro Wattmeter -- again they never heard of it. I find that very upsetting. You just can't go around asking a Keith, Ken or Tom, what motor should I use. If you do, you will never "grow" in the electric hobby.
What I feel was missing is:
Motor current
voltage under load
watts (either measured or calculated
Prop size (dia/pitch)
If gear drive, what reduction ratio
number of cells and capacity of those cells
Ni-Cd or NiMH?
     I've never been a fan of two channel control, especially when the rudder stick is on one side and the elevator on the other. It makes it difficult to even find an instructor pilot. Then the fact that there is no motor control means that the beginner must sweat out an entire flight until the battery wears down.
     Surprisingly enough I was interested enough in the Speed Pilot to look it up in my current Hobbico sales flyer. I couldn't find the Speed Pilot, but did find something called the Flyzone "Aero Cruiser" which appears to be the identical model. But it has three-channel control of the rudder and elevator, along with an ESC on the motor. It comes with a full three channel R/C system for a sale price of $169.95. If I have made the right assumption, this is really the model that should be recommended to the beginner.
     (Thanks Bob. I couldn’t agree with you more. I will work very hard to see this info is provided to Ampeer readers whenever possible. KM)

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Once Again a Sad Report

     This has not been a good spring for EFO members. Unfortunately it is my sad duty to report that our very active and wonderful member, Mike Holroyde has lost his wife, Sharon, to her long battle with cancer. Mike our deepest and most sincere thoughts are with you.
     Our good friends and members Gus Nuerenberg and Art (Wally) Brandel have also had to cope with this same tragedy recently.
     Gentlemen, we are thinking of all of you, and if there is anything we can do for all you, please just let us know.

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U-2 Revisited
From: Grant Calkins email:CasinoOp@worldnet.att.net

     In a previous issue depicting the first flights of my U-2 EDF plane, I mentioned that using 11 cells with a Plettenberg 200-20-6 motor probably was the cause of the motor sounding like a cement mixer following just two flights. It would take "major abdominal surgery" to find out for sure. Well folks, it turns out that the motor and fan were fine, but all mounting screws nuts and bolds had come loose! A couple screws were clinging to the motor's magnet. Moral: When you have a system turning more than 30,000 rpm use generous amounts of Locktite on all mounting hardware. And use new stuff - my Locktite was "liberated" from my aerosppace industry employer 32 years ago.
     Finally, the results of substituting a Velkome 202027 motor for the Plettenberg on this U-2: On the same 11 cells the Velkome produced only 88% of the watts of the Plettenberg. The U-2 flew just as you would have expected, longer takeoff roll and slightly slower speed coupled with slightly longer flight time. At about the same cost, the Plettenberg remains the king for the smaller EDF jets!

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B-17
From: Bob Mugge email:EggumBob@aol.com

Bob's B-17

     According to my file data (which is way behind) it's been quite a while since I wrote you about my B-17 project, but it is finally about done. I have been wrestling with a weight problem all along. After giving up on retracts (too heavy, but was forced to put in Robart 661 oleo struts for some shock action) and wanting to get as much power as possible, I finally settled on RC2400 batteries. I had second thoughts about this, as I would rather have used some lighter hydrides, but needed the heavier batteries to get proper balance point. Attached is a picture, and here are the final plane specs:
Wing span: 78 in
Wing area: 800 sq.in. (not counting the stab, which is semi-symmetrical)
Loaded weight: 13 lb. 6 oz. (214 oz.)
Wing loading: 38.5 oz/sq.ft.
Motors: (4) Leisure 05s (1002C--17 turns, Kv=3598, Rm=52 mohms, Io=2.8A)
Gearing: 2.77 (I also have pinion gears for 2.57 ratio--more on this later)
Props: 9x6 3 blade Tornado or 9x7 3 blade Graupner (I hate 2 bladers on a B-17!!!)
Batteries: 28 cells RC2400 NiCad (may get Sanyo 3000 NiMH for second set)
ESCs: (2) Astro 217D (30A, opto-isolated for interference reduction)
Configuration: inboard motors in series through one ESC on 14 cells, outboard motors in series through other ESC on 14 more cells. ESCs Y'd together into throttle channel. Test data with one motor and 2.77 gearing on bench motor stand and fresh 7 cells:
Current drain: 28A with 9x6 prop, 33A with 9x7 prop
RPM: 7600 with 9x6, 7000 with 9x7
Thrust: 32 oz with 9x6, 29 oz with 9x7
(note: longer wiring in plane cuts this down about 2A and 250 RPM)
     I had been looking for some fellow modelers with experience in flying heavy electrics, and have recently found George Maiorana, who has a large TU-4/B-29, running on four MaxCims and with a wing loading of 54.5 oz./sq.ft. His pilot is Dave Pinegar, and I have been getting some suggestions from them as to how to setup and fly this brick. Dave says the TU-4 is a pussycat. They do advise getting a longer than normal runway for trials until I find out what it does. I will be using a team pilot too.
     Now for a few questions.
     I have been advised to change from a standard Futaba FM receiver (R127DF) to a PCM receiver for interference reduction. Do you have experience with this, and is it necessary? The PCM receiver--at least the Futaba--R148DP--is quite expensive.
     Another source says that another way to go is to use a HiTec receiver, which supposedly has better shielding than the Futaba. All my high current wiring is forward of all receiver and servo circuits by at least 6 inches. Comments? (I believe I advised using the Hitec. KM)
     There are supposedly some better hydride cells out there now. I understand that the Panasonic 3000's that came out first had higher internal resistance and didn't last long when run at currents over 25A. Supposedly the new Sanyos are better, and are about as good as the RC2400s and weigh about the same. I was going to look into some lighter 2000's but then the balance problem got in the way. Comments? (Hopefully the Sanyos will be better. KM)
     I enjoyed the article in the April Ampeer by Scott Black on wing loading. You do put out an excellent newsletter. I love it!

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Upcoming May EFO Meeting


REMEMBER: the EFO meeting is a flying meeting to be held with the M.I.S.S. folks on Sunday, May 6 at Camp Dearborn in Milford. Camp Dearborn is on GM Rd, just west of Milford Rd. Tell them you are flying with M.I.S.S. We’ll have a FREE field lunch for you, so bring your latest and greatest to fly. Don’t forget your AMA card. Friends with AMA cards welcome to fly.

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To Reach Ken Myers, you can land mail to the address at the top of the page. My E-mail address is: KMyersEFO@aol.com
EFO WEBsite: http://members.aol.com/KMyersEFO/