Introduction November 2019 "My Thoughts and Research On Towing with the 2019 Ascent" Webpage started after ordering our 2019 Subaru Ascent, with Premium trim and the towing receiver hitch installed, in August of 2018. I continued to research possible travel trailers that could be "reasonably" and safely pulled by the Ascent with its maximum 5000 lb. towing capacity and maximum 500 lb. tongue weight. I shared my findings, online, through May 16 of 2019, the date that we purchased our Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB from Haylett RV in Coldwater, MI. This is a link to a LONG YouTube video with a lot of information, in minute detail, about OUR Apex Nano 187RB. This is a link a Webpage that compliments and extends the information in the video. The page contains much, much information, including more problems and fixes, regarding OUR Apex Nano 187RB. Learning what "reasonably" and safely actual meant was completed by investigating what "experts" had to say online about this topic. The information garnered during the investigation played a large part in our final decision. On this page, and its linked pages, I shared my findings. The Webpages were frequently updated online when new information was found or modified. We also had to determine if this was something that we really wanted to do once again. During the thought and research period, I joined the Ascent Forums. I became very active in the Towing Forum using the user name of Ken Myers. The members of the Towing Forum were exceptionally helpful and welcoming. I shared my thoughts with them and they, in return, provided a lot of useful information about towing with the Subaru Ascent. At the beginning of November, 2019, I created a Webpage titled, "Subaru Ascent Real World Towing Examples". That page contains all of the trailers that have been reported as being towed by a Subaru Ascent on the Ascent Forums. Most of that information was originally posted to the Towing Forum. ALL TYPES of trailers are listed on that Webpage, not just travel trailers. The "Subaru Ascent Real World Towing Examples" page is a good place to start to get an idea of the type of trailers that the Ascent is actually reported as towing. The information found on all of my Webpages is also useful for people with tow packages on the Chevy Traverse, Ford Explorer and other vehicles with tow packages and that are rated with a 5000 lb. towing capacity and 500 lb. tongue weight. The information on this page was left as is, so that anyone wanting more detailed information could still find it. It is also interesting to note that there are a few broken links, and yet the links were created only one year ago or less. That demonstrates how transient the information found on the World Wide Web actually is. The original, last updated, Webpage follows as an archival document. Part 1: My Towing Background
My auxiliary pages that are linked to during this article and that provide more detailed information. Trailer Research contains information regarding specific travel trailers that MIGHT be possible to be towed with a Subaru Ascent. The list has grown over the months. Some of the possible trailers have been eliminated from my personal list, but still remain in the list for reference. RV Videos has links to many YouTube videos by Josh Winters and David Crossett. I found the videos on purchasing, maintaining and RVing tips useful. Summaries and Other Notes started out as a page to move my notes to condense this article. Since then it has expanded to including Some Ramifications of the Law Regarding the Purchase of RVs, Video Links Demonstrating Problems and Frustrations That May Have Been Avoided, Problems with RV Roofs, Examples for the tow vehicle weight to trailer length rule of thumb and the Physics and Dynamics involved in towing a travel trailer. RV Essentials and Wants is my ever growing list of essential purchases if we do purchase a travel trailer. The list also includes several wants. The list is quite generic, but it gives an overall idea of the types of purchases that will be required in addition to the travel trailer itself. MY RV Essentials and Wants was a proposed list of specific items that I find essential or desirable. It included several wants that others may find unnecessary. It has links to sources and pricing. I believe that most people should expect that this initial expense will be between $3000 and $4000. (added 03/10/19)
My Actual RV Essential Weights in Our Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB This is a weight list of the things we've actually placed in our new Forest River/Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB. This is not a complete weight list yet. There are still some "essentials on order" and clothes, food and probably some other supplies have that have not been loaded into the trailer at this time, June 13, 2019.
RV Recalls That Might Affect Trailers We Are Looking At includes recalls for the last year. The recall info was gathered from RV Travel.com. Dealerships within 100 Miles that Carry the Brand I'm Looking For. This really only applies to someone who lives in southeastern Michigan, but how I developed the list is noted at the top of the page. Subaru Ascent Premium Miles Per Gallon. A record of my average mpg over time. It includes information on mpg when towing. This page is being continually updated.
I first towed a small travel trailer with my Chevy S10. The small, old travel trailer was not really used for my family. I used it mainly to haul my radio controlled (RC) model airplanes and have a place to stay while competing in Precision Aerobatics (Pattern) RC Competition in the Midwest and southern Canada.
I acquired a used Coachmen, tandem/dual axle bunkhouse, which I first towed with a Chevy Suburban and later my 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer.
I bought a new Jayco, much larger, bunkhouse and pulled it with a couple of different Chevy Suburbans.
The Suburban/Coachmen bunkhouse combo was used for family trips from southeastern Michigan out through South Dakota and then down through the National Parks in the Rockies and Tetons to San Diego, CA. That trip returned back through the southwest and across the Midwest to southeastern Michigan.
The next trip with this combo was to Washington D.C. and then up through the New England states, across New York state to Niagara Falls, Canada and across Ontario to southeastern Michigan.
That combo was used for a trip to, and stay at, Disney World, in Orlando, FL.
Over the years there were many trips to various great Michigan State Parks in both the upper and lower peninsulas of Michigan, as well as trips to Cedar Point in Ohio.
There was also a trip through the Wisconsin Dells continuing again out to South Dakota and back.
My last tow vehicle was a Chevy Silverado 2500HD. I had planned to put a truck camper on it and go to Alaska, but that never happened. I did end up towing a two-place, enclosed, motorcycle trailer with it, with the longest trip being down to Naples, FL and back.
A weight distributing hitch (WDH) system was used on both bunkhouses, but not the motorcycle trailer.
My towing days ended when I replaced my 2500HD with a new 2009 Outback. I bought a new 2011 Outback and kept it until I traded it in on my 2019 Ascent 8-passenger Premium on October 12, 2018.
I've provided this information to inform you that I am not new to towing.
On November 12, 2018, I became curious as to how my 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer compared to the 2019 Ascent as a tow vehicle. I was thinking that the Ascent had a shorter wheelbase than the Grand Wagoneer, so I looked up some data on the 1990 Grand Wagoneer, as it had been a decent tow vehicle for my Coachmen bunkhouse. I was quite surprised with the data comparison.
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| I bought my new Ascent to be able to take more and/or larger radio controlled model airplanes to the radio control flying field and still be able to access my cabin in the wilderness of Michigan's western upper peninsula.
Noting the "5000 lb. towing capacity rating" on the Ascent got me to thinking that my wife and I might once again enjoy RV traveling. Part 2: Getting Started With the Research I ordered my Premium on August 24, 2018. That allowed me a lot of time to do research on possibly towing a travel trailer with the Ascent. I started the research by downloading all of the manuals for the Ascent and its systems. In the Subaru User's Manual, p. 398, it notes, "8-12 Towing - Your vehicle is designed and intended to be used primarily as a passenger-carrying vehicle. Towing a trailer puts additional loads on your vehicle's engine, drivetrain, brakes, tires and suspension and has an adverse effect on fuel economy." While doing my research, I always kept that statement in mind. During the time that I tried to figure out what my Ascent could actually tow safely, I found several useful Websites and videos about towing, including the Ascent forum. 06/02/2019 - The Ascent forum was recently updated. The Towing section can be found here. There is a lot more useful information on actually towing with the Ascent in that part of the forum than when I originally posted this article. Payload 1,502 or or 1,158lbs?
Towed a 4,395 pound GVWR Heartland Edge today...
Gas consumption while towing
Towed 3500lb GVWR pop up camper up the mountains (data logged)
01/28/19: More on towing from the Towing section of the Ascent forum Towed Mustang to the Race Track - 4700lbs total
Ascent - Trailer brake install Redarc Tow-Pro Elite
First Towing Experience
2 5/16 Ball?
02/28/19 Tongue Weight Conundrums various opinions on how to locate travel trailers with a low enough tongue weight for the Ascent. The often mentioned video, that Subaru had produced for them, got me quite excited about the possibility of towing once again. Unfortunately, I soon realized that it was all marketing hyperbole (hype). A little math showed that the Ascent Touring could not really pull, across the various terrain elevations of the US, the Airstream Sport 22FB with a decent payload in the trailer while carrying three adults, three youth, a large dog and the camping gear shown in the video. I was disappointed to note that the video production company used a weight distributing hitch for the production for the marketing department at Subaru. The manual notes, p. 395, &auot;Use only the ball mount supplied with this hitch. Use the hitch only as a weight carrying hitch. Do not use with any type of weight distributing hitch." Gotta love marketing. I was intrigued when Rogers Subaru posted a video showing an Ascent pulling a Coachmen Mini Lite 1905BH (bunkhouse). I had researched a similar Coachmen Mini Lite 1905 model, non-bunkhouse version. Since I started my research, the Mini Lite 1905, in its various iterations, was discontinued. That was probably good for me, as it really had too much frontal area, being both high and 8' wide, the usual standard travel trailer width. It is quite heavy, compared to other travel trailers that I later found.  05/05/19 Update I recently rediscovered the above photo of Ascent hitched to an Airstream F22 with bikes on top of Ascent on the Subaru Ascent Website. Just one more way the marketing department pulled us in to try towing with the Ascent. Part 3: Gathering Information to Return to Towing a Travel Trailer Even though I have experience towing with both of my tandem/dual axle bunkhouse travel trailers and an enclosed, single axle, motorcycle trailer, I felt that I needed to be 'reeducated' in selecting a possible travel trailer and in setting up a vehicle for travel trailer towing. First, I tried to figure out how much of a travel trailer I could really tow with the Ascent 8-passenger Premium trim. I found a couple of YouTube videos and an Internet published article to help in my selection of a suitable 'Couple's Travel Trailer'. Five Towing Mistakes RV Owners Make My summary and notes regarding this video. Note 01/07/2019: From the video, "The best scenario is to find a trailer with the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) equal to, or less than, the tow rating of your vehicle." When I first heard this, I didn't WANT to believe it. I wasn't sure that that was really good, or accurate, information, but my research has shown this to be a pretty good 'rule of thumb' to follow. Update 03/23/19
The Winnebago Micro Minnie tandem axle 1706FB has a gross vehicle weight rating of 7000 lb. It's unloaded vehicle weight is stated as 2980 lb. The Ascent SHOULD be able to pull it when loaded for a couple. Update 05/05/19 I found a Winnebago page from 2016. That page notes the GVWR as 5500 lb. with a Dry Weight of 2980 lb. and Carrying Capacity of 2520 lb. The axles are still rated at 2 @ 3500 lb., the same as the above link. To ME this seems more in line for this size travel trailer. "What Kind of Camper Can my Vehicle Tow? Guide to Safe Towing" by David Kreutzer My summary and notes regarding this article. "PAYLOAD PROBLEMS: HOW MUCH CAN I (REALLY) TOW? RV Truck & Trailer" Click "Watch this video on YouTube" to view the video. His spreadsheet, demonstrated during the video, can be downloaded at a link under the video on the YouTube page. I found a more useful spreadsheet, for MY purposes, here; www.rvitch.com/resources/resources.php
I modified that spreadsheet for my own purposes. There is a link to my modified version later in the article. It is in Part 4, where the modified version of the spreadsheet is explained. THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM when trying to use a spreadsheet that requires one entry to be the gross combined vehicle weight rating (GCVWR). There is no GCVWR stated for the Ascent. It was extremely difficult to find information to compare other brands' GCVWRs to the Ascent. Trying to use Apples to Apples comparisons, I used data from the TorqueNews Website to identify a couple of somewhat similar vehicles. Subaru Ascent 2.4L Turbo 260 hp, 277 lb ft Torque
It is interesting to note that the Chevy Traverse uses the same platform as the GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave but the Acadia's rated towing capacity is 4000 lb. and the Enclave's rated towing capacity is up to 5000 lb., which is the same as the Chevy Traverse. The research showed that the GCVWR generally is a little more than 90% of the tow vehicle's GVWR plus the Recommended Maximum Towing Capacity. 2018 Ford Explorer GVWR 6160 lb.
2018 Chevy Traverse GVWR 6160 lb.
Using the very, very limited data that I could obtain, I calculated the GCVWR as a percentage of the GVWR plus the listed towing capacity. This calculated, estimated, non-real world number was only to be used on MY spreadsheet. There is absolutely no way to tell if this number has any validity at all.
WARNING!!! This is NOT how the GCVWR is truly calculated. Today, the GCVWR is based on the SAE J2807 Standard, and used by most manufacturers for their vehicles designed for towing. The SAE J2807 standard is a real world towing test. The ONLY reason I calculated a Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR) this way is because Subaru did NOT give us the information based on the SAE J2807 Standard. Most likely, this is because the Ascent is NOT a tow vehicle. It is a passenger car. Ascent GVWR 6000 lb. plus Maximum Trailer Towing Weight Recommendation 5000 lb. = 11,000 lb.
I am absolutely NOT claiming the GCVWR is 9900 lb. It is just what I am using to get a handle on all of the math! 02/24/19
This information caused me to revaluate the value I used for the GCVWR determined from above. 2019 Ford Explorer 3.5L V6 4WD curb weight 4629 lb., Towing capacity 5000 lb., GCVWR 10,150, 18.6 gallon tank @ 6.3 lb./gal.
2019 Chevy Traverse 3.6L V6 SIDI AWD, Towing capacity 5000 lb., AWD GCVWR 10,250 lb., 21.7 gallon tank @ 6.3 lb./gal.
2019 Ascent Premium 8-passenger w/pkg 12, Towing Capacity 5000, 19.3 gallon tank @ 6.3 lb./gal.
The numbers for the Ascent are close enough to my guesstimate not to change it. This information is here for archival purposes. I was recently contacted by Jillian Stark, of "Your RV Life Style", about an article they recently published. The article is titled How Much Can My Truck Tow? A Guide to Finding the Right Tow Vehicle for Your Camper. This article can help in matching a tow vehicle to a trailer for some folks. But Now It is What Has Actually Gone Into My Travel Trailer My Actual Trailer Payload List Updated 07/28/19 We purchased a Forest River/Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB on May 16, 2019. This section was revised on July 28, 2019 to reflect what was actually weighed and then placed into this trailer. Some of the original estimates have been changed, based upon real weights and what we've actually loaded into the travel trailer. The changes were made to more accurately reflect what weights others might expect to load into their trailers that can be pulled by the Ascent. A list of weights has been created of actual items, both essential and wants, that have been placed in the trailer. The list also notes the unloaded vehicle weight (UVW) of this Summit package version of the Apex Nano 187RB, its gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) and cargo carrying capacity (CCC) as noted on the actual, delivered trailer. I originally created a 'payload' list for the trailer for use on MY spreadsheet. The numbers were based on the numbers presented by David Kreutzer in his article and my best guesstimates, at that time. The estimated weights used on My spreadsheet - updated *Note: water weighs approximately 8.34 lb. per gallon
Black tank: 0.5 gal.
*Note: a full #20 lb LP tank weighs approximately 38 lb.
*Note: Marine/RV batteries and their associated battery boxes can weigh between 45 lb. - 65 lb. depending on size
Trailer Payload - the personal items
I was recently contacted by Ray Mayfield, of "Campers Guide", about an article they recently published. The article is titled Ultimate RV Packing List for a First Time Camper. This article can help you select the items that you might want to consider for a successful RVing experience. Understanding the various aspects of the dynamics and physics of towing a travel trailer is also important. I was very disappointed that I could find no Websites in the USA that covered this topic. I have linked Websites in the UK and Austrailia that do cover the topic. Links to their information and my notes can be found here. Tongue Weight
In the previous videos and article, it was noted that it is common in the USA to recommend tongue weights of 10% to 15% of the travel trailer's weight ready for the road. The Subaru Ascent manual, Page 401 states, "Ensure that the trailer tongue load is from 8 to 11 percent of the total trailer weight and does not exceed the maximum value of 500 lbs (227 kg)." The above video demonstrates the "too little" tongue weight problem. Towing Stability Graph  - Towing Stability Graph courtesy of The Trailer Handbook by NATM The North American Trailer Dealers Association (NATDA) has a Web page that presents a graph that illustrates a very simplistic ratio relationship of the weight of the tow vehicle over the weight of the trailer on the horizontal axis and the percent of the hitch load weight in the vertical axis. The graph's source appears to be on the Fastway Trailer Products Website. Fastway Trailer Products also has a Web page that suggests a simplistic way to determine the maximum unloaded trailer weight. It uses the tow vehicle's given towing capacity and adjusts for weight added to the tow vehicle and trailer. I did not find any of this information useful, but left it here to archive it. Unfortunately, trailer stability is not only a factor of tongue weight. Another trailer stability factor is the vehicle speed. The following linked article address both tongue weight and speed. 02/24/19
The Ascent forum has a topic thread on this issue. Updated 06/02/2019 The Haul Gauge is an electronic way to measure the weights. The Haul Gauge Homepage indicates that it uses the OBD-II port on the vehicle and an App to determine the weights. I checked with Haul Gauge and found out that it does work with the Subaru CVT type transmission. I also checked to see what 'level' means when setting up the Haul Gauge. I purchased, and have used, the Haul Gauge. At first it appeared to be working well. I measured my Ascent Premium at a CAT scale, both with me in the car and again with me outside the car. The CAT scale noted the weight, with me in the car, as 4,700 lb. The Haul Gauge also indicated about 4,700 lb. The tongue weight appeared to be working, but when I tried to get the combined vehicle weight before leaving Coldwater, MI on May 16, 2019, it was off by over 1000 lb. I will be looking into this 'issue' as soon as possible. Videos pertaining to this device are found here and here. It seems that all of the consumer devices to measure trailer weight and/or tongue weight are poor solutions. From the online reviews, it seems that NONE of them give CONSISTENT and REPEATABLE weight results. The devices that I've found are: Sherline LM 1000 - Trailer Tongue Weight Scale - 1000LB Trailer Hitch Ball Capacity Scale CWC CARAVAN WEIGHT CONTROL UP TO 1,500 KG Tow Safe Caravan Weight Scales It appears that a CAT scale is the most accurate way to get the best handle on weights, but it is also the most inconvenient! I originally had the Sherline LM 1000 as one of my essentials on the RV Essentials page and My RV Essentials Estimate Pricing and Source List. After reviewing more online videos and reviews yesterday, April 6, I decided that I really didn't want one. I left the Haul Gauge on the list. I'm not sure how accurate, consistent and repeatable its results are, at this time. In mid-March I started thinking a lot about the lateral, side-to-side, balance of travel trailers and its relationship to trailer sway. I AM NOT an engineer of any type. The following are totally a layman's thoughts. I remembered riding a Tilt-A-Whirl in my youth. A Tilt-A-Whirl is a cart that is attached and spins around a pivot point on its wheels. As the platform, that the cart rotates on, goes up and down and around and around, the cart can be made to whip really hard when the weight of the occupants is moved to one side. To ME, this indicated that trailer sway could be exacerbated with the weight concentrated on one side of the trailer, although I could find NO documentation to confirm this. Almost all of the travel trailers, that I considered, have the majority of the weight on one side of the trailer. Those weights include the refrigerator, furnace, water heater, stove and/or oven and majority of the lower cabinet space. For those trailers, that weight is only offset by an awning, entrance steps and some room in overhead cabinets (not a good place to add weight) and under bench storage on the opposite side. Most of the spare tires are centered somewhere outside or inside the trailer. I looked at the CWC Caravan Weight Control and Tow Safe Caravan Weight Scale. After reading and viewing video reviews of those devices, I decided that they were not suitable. I followed a dead end with the idea that tire pressure and contact area could yield a usable vehicle weight result. The idea came from a video titled "weigh your car". It simply does not work, period! There is a point in the Towsafe weight scale February 2017" video where a heavier weight on one side of the trailer is noted. "Trailer and Tire Do's and Don'ts: Answers to Common Questions" mentions tire wear when not loaded properly side to side, but not exacerbating sway. Tips for Towing your Travel Trailer Weight and Balance" does note, "The left/right balance in your trailer will also make a difference in your handling on the road, so ensuring you've got an even load is an important part of getting out in your RV." Understanding Trailer Weight Safety" notes, "When loading a trailer, store heavy gear first, keeping it as close to the floor as possible. Heavy items should be stored directly over or slightly ahead of the axles. Store only light items on high shelves. Distribute weight to obtain even side-to-side balance of the loaded vehicle." The video "How to Load Your Caravan Correctly" shows that when a weight is placed behind the driver side axle and equal weight ahead of camp side axle the trailer is quite stable.
The above is a UK video. 
A typical UK trailer
In the UK, they tend to place their axles at about 50% of the trailer length from the coupler to the rear, while in the USA, most of the axles are placed at about 60% of the trailer length from the coupler to the rear. This a link to the J. Darling report, "An experimental investigation of car-trailer high-speed stability", that the Bailey simulator is based on. I did take the time to gather some common component weights for some of the appliances. 13' power RV awning 47 lb. That weight is very high above the trailers CG and on the outside of the trailer body. MOR/Ryde 2-step 30 lb.
3-burner stove top 15 lb. Dometic 6 cu.ft. Refrigerator 115 lb.
Water heater Atwood/Dometic 25 lb. RV microwave 28 lb. RV trailer rear ladder 11 lb. RV 2 burner stove top 9.5 lb. 3-burner stove with oven 54 lb. Travel trailer 2-step 30 lb. 20,000 BTU Furnace 24 lb. I don't know if any of this is actually useful, but I wanted to archive this information. I am reasonably sure that lateral balance is important, but I cannot determine how important it really is. 02/10/19 The Guide to Towing by Ford notes several other considerations for towing successfully and, more importantly, safely. Since the Ascent manual specifically notes that a weight distribution hitch (WDH) should NOT be used, I found the following from the Ford towing guide interesting; Class III - Heavy-Duty (the type of hitch used on the Ascent)
Class IV - Extra-Heavy-Duty
And in the section "RV Trailers"; Conventional Travel Trailer
To me, the words "can be used" imply that they do not have to be used. 02/10/19
If the above video is opened on YouTube, so that the comments can be viewed, a rule of thumb of tow vehicle wheelbase to trailer length is stated. The commment notes, "when starting out with a 110" wheel base tow vehicle, you can safely tow a 20' trailer. Then for every 4" of additional wheelbase, you can add another foot of trailer." I attempted, for many weeks, to locate the original source of the rule of thumb formula using Google, but I could not find it. That rule of thumb is cited often, but the original source seems to be 'lost'. The formula shows up in various travel trailer forums. I found it as far back as 2003, but I just could not find the original source. In the above video, Josh notes that a sway control hitch is a good idea. The Ascent has built in automatic trailer stability assist, as demonstrated in the video below. It is also recommended that the Ascent does NOT use a physical anti-sway device. Update 06/02/2019 Originally there was a section here where I discussed three electronic sway control devices that can be mounted on a trailer to control its sway. It does not appear, at this time, to be necessary with the Ascent. That section has been archived here. The Ascent has a 113.8" wheelbase. IF the rule of thumb formula is valid, that would suggest a travel trailer with a total length, rear bumper to hitch, should not exceed 21'. One of my problems with the simple rule of thumb formula is that it does not indicate whether this applies to all travel trailers, single axle and tandem axle, or only one of those types. As a general rule, tandem axle travel trailers tend to be more stable when 'hit' with 'side' winds than single axle travel trailers. For reference, a link to wheelbases for many popular tow vehicles are listed along with a wheelbase to trailer length chart based on the tow vehicle wheelbase to trailer length rule of thumb. Updated 06/02/19 This section originally contained two practical examples of vehicles, that were somewhat similar to the Ascent, towing the type of trailers that the Ascent might have been able to handle. There are now many examples of the Ascent actually towing trailers in the Towing section of the Ascent forum that examples have been archived here. Part 4: Using MY Modified Spreadsheet to Predict Weights Note: The current downloadable spreadsheet uses the Apex Nano 187RB numbers and the higher payload number from above, therefore it will look a little different from the screen captures below. I added a "Payload Weight" entry area to the top of the spreadsheet found at www.rvitch.com/resources/resources.php. In the first section of the new area, found at the top of the spreadsheet, the weights of the major items to be put into the trailer are input.  MY weights for clothes, bedding and food, in pounds, are based on only two people. The weights are input into the light yellow cells.  The new Entries:
The following entries are from that manufacturer's Web site
The entries in cells E18 & E19 allow for some water remaining in the tanks
 This is MY modified first section of the original spreadsheet with my modified notes on it. The trailer's GVWR was found on the specification page of the trailer manufacturer's Website. That weight was entered into cell G32.  The entry into yellow cell F40 of 4673 lb. is based on the 'worst case scenario' of the 2019 Ascent Touring Trim. (Cell F40 was left active incase I change my mind about what weight to use.)
The other entries in this area are self-explanatory.  There are significant changes to the original spreadsheet in this section.
 There is a lot of significant information in this section.
Click to download a copy of this spreadsheet Part 5: Figuring Out IF the Ascent Could Pull a Couple's Coach Was Only a First Step As we looked for possible "Couple's Trailers", weight and frontal area were not the only factors in OUR possible trailer choices. Our Coachmen bunkhouse had its travel trailer 'queen' size bed running across the trailer width, which is known by some as an east/west orientation. This is not convenient for late night trips to the bathroom by the partner on the far side of the bed. While we considered trailers that met the the weight criteria, the width criteria (narrow body), and the low frontal area criteria, we also knew that it had to have a north/south bed orientation or Murphy bed. The much BIGGER QUESTION still remained... DO WE REALLY WANT TO DO THIS? It is not just a matter of purchasing a trailer and hooking it up to the Ascent. All of our previous trailer gear, supplies and many specialized tools went with the sale of our last bunkhouse. The Ascent would also have to have a brake controller installed. They would all have to be purchased again. Insurance would also have to be purchased. To aid in making some of these decisions, I located many videos on YouTube pertaining to purchasing, maintaining and using travel trailers today. I also purchased some subscription courses regarding buying and using travel trailers. This is the link to MY page of investigative videos. The above linked page contains links to videos about:
Part 6: If WE do decide to do this;
I began researching possible trailers in late September of 2018. The first weekend in October we went to the RV Show in Novi, MI with a list of possible trailers and to explore some other possible choices. We also wanted to get the real feel of what we were looking at online. As I learned more and more about the couple's trailers available today, I prepared a presentation for my wife, linked to specific videos. The presentation was also a way to keep data and compare possible choices. Week after week, trailer choices were added to the list and a specific trailer's pros and cons were noted. The listing contains a lot of specific information on individual trailers, as well as many subjective comments and thoughts. The list is NOT exhaustive by any means, and it is still being modified, added to and otherwise changed. 03/10/19 We have also attended a second RV show in Novi, one at Macomb Community College and one in Battle Creek, MI. Information garnered at these shows is now reflected in our trailer research. IMPORTANT - THERE IS NO DATA AVAILABLE ANYWHERE IN THE REAL WORLD THAT SUBSTANTIATES THAT ALL OF THESE RESEARCHED TRAILERS CAN BE PULLED SUCCESSFULLY, THROUGH VARIOUS TERRAIN, BY A SUBARU ASCENT. Part 7: Do We Really Want to Do This?
1. Obtaining a useable trailer:
The next video cannot be linked from here to start at a specific time into the video. The link is provided using the name of the video. What to do before you pay for your RV Purchasing a travel trailer can be an extremely stressful experience. Not everyone can handle the stress well. There are no consumer protection laws regarding the purchase of an RV. Once you've signed the sales contract to purchase the new RV as is and any financial papers, it is yours, period! On my page titled, "Information On Purchasing & Maintaining a Travel Trailer That I Found Useful" there is a lot more very useful information on purchasing RVs. Some ramifications of the law regarding the purchase of RV types, including travel trailers. Nine words RV buyers must insist be written on their sales contract as stated by Ron Burdge, RV lemon lawyer. "We give buyer a 24-hour warranty against defects." Take your time. Download and read the manual or manuals for the trailer or trailers manufacturer that you are most interested in. The Warranty is included in the manual. The majority of the time, the manuals are generic across a manufacturer's various products. For Example, once you've downloaded a manual for a specific Forest River travel trailer, it is the same manual for all of the Forest River travel trailers. The Forest River products on MY trailer research page include, the Rockwood Geo Pro 19FD, Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB, 191RBS and 213RDS, PaloMini 180FB & 181FBS, Coachmen Clipper/Viking 17FQS, Cherokee Wolf Pup 16FQ, Wildwood FSX 187RB & its twin, the Salem Cruise Lite FSX 187RB, Prime Time Manufacturing Navi 160FQ, and the Prime Time Manufacturing PTX 160FQ. That is approximately 1/2 the travel trailers on my research page. The Forest River travel trailer manual and warranty. The link for the PDF download is in the upper right corner of the page where it says Owner's Manual PDF: English. The Gulf Stream travel trailer manual and Warranty.
Jayco Manuals Jayco is a bit different for a Thor brand. There are manuals for each of Jayco's various lines. Travel trailers and the year must be selected. I have the Hummingbird 17MBS and JAY FLIGHT SLX 7 195RB on my research page.
Locating manuals and warranty information, except for Jayco, is extremely difficult. Two examples that I found are below. Dutchmen manual The link is to a 2017 manual and all that I could find online. It appears to be the same as the Keystone manual below. Keystone manuals Appears to be the same manual as the Dutchmen above. Once you find a manual for the brand you are interested in, take your time reading it. Remember it is generic and most manuals across the various brands have the same type of information and warranty. Trying to read and comprehend the whole manual, while the dealer is doing his pre-delivery inspection (PDI), as suggested in some of the manuals, could prove problematic at best. Pay particular attention the Warranty information! Caution: Under no circumstances "pay" for the RV by signing a sales contract and/or other financial papers until you are as close as possible to being 100% satisfied with the trailer being delivered! You still have the power to walk away unless the trailer meets your expectations. Keep that power. What your RV salesperson wishes he could tell you! (or "Reality check!") The music is annoying, but the information is valuable.
The manufacturer and dealership WILL make it almost impossible to use the warranty. Fighting with them is more typical than not, and as stated before, there are no consumer protection laws to help you force the dealership or manufacturer to honor the warranty. What you need to know about SERVICE in the RV industry! Part 1 of 2!
The two previous videos make it clear why YOUR own, or a professional, pre-delivery inspection is absolutely essential! 1. Factory quality control is a big problem. The manufacturers are turning out so many RVs a year now, that the quality and quality control, has become extremely poor. This could be overcome by locating a reliable dealership and then doing MY own Pre-delivery Inspection (PDI), after the dealership's, and before "going over the curb" from the dealership, or hiring a National Recreational Vehicle Inspectors Association (NRVIA) inspector, or similar organization's inspector, to go over the trailer at the dealership before signing any financial papers. Doing MY own PDI would be very time consuming and might prove difficult at the dealership. Hiring a NRVIA inspector will add to the initial cost of the trailer that cannot be 'rolled into' the purchase price. The items that need checking are listed in various PDI lists on the Internet. A couple of examples on two Websites are linked below. Changin' Gears RV Inspection Checklist RV With The Tanners
Failing to complete a pre-delivery inspection, PDI, or having a professional PDI completed, can lead to great disappointment and frustration. Several videos that demonstrate either failure to do an adequate PDI, or regular maintenance, can be found here. David Crossett, founder of RV Masters, a pay for video course online for RV training, released a video on YouTube that notes 15 things to do when you get your new trailer home. To ME, it is an excellent reference for doing your own pre-delivery inspection (PDI) at the dealership. To ME, doing it after you get home is like closing the barn door after the cows got out. Once you cross the curb of the dealership, the trailer is yours. Getting it back in to get a warranty claim done will be difficult to schedule and set back your camping, possibly for a whole camping season! I have created a PDF file of his 15 points. The PDF file can be printed and used at the dealership to do your own Pre-delivery Inspection. There are several times in the PDF that I refer to my RV Essentials page, this is the link to that page. Part of an actual Professional PDI on a Class A Motor Coach This does not directly apply to the small travel trailers that can be pulled by the Ascent, but it does give a good overview of what a professional does to check out an RV.
Greg Gerber, editor of RV Daily Report, an industry and, now as well, consumer publication, reported on the Jan. 2 Episode of the RV Show USA, that 1/2 million RVs were sold in 2016, 2017 and 2018. This has a direct affect on points 2 and 3 below. 2. Where to camp:
3. Not enough service technicians and service bays:
4. The really poor condition of the roads in Michigan and much of the USA.
5. Gas milage per gallon
6. Our changing climate
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